Bold claim: can we save the climate by shrinking our economies? Since the 1960s, global GDP has surged and living standards have hit record highs. Yet carbon emissions have climbed even faster, raising a pressing question for scientists and economists: is it possible to grow without heating and polluting the planet? As climate instability intensifies, the urgency of this debate only grows. In this episode, Madeleine Finlay speaks with two influential economists who challenge traditional metrics of national success. Nick Stern, a professor of economics and government at the London School of Economics, champions green growth—a pathway to expansion that emphasises developing green industries and sustainable practices. Jason Hickel, a political economist and professor at the Autonomous University of Barcelona, argues for degrowth—reducing parts of the economy that fail to advance social well-being and ecological health. He contends that meaningful progress may require rethinking what we measure as success. This conversation invites us to consider not just how fast we grow, but what that growth actually costs the climate and people around the world, and whether alternative frameworks can deliver a safer, fairer future.
